Today, I’m thinking I should add another post category called Reality Check. But that might be too discouraging—to me as well as you. Even though I’ve been querying my novel for a while, it took Duotrope to make me say, “What was I thinking?”
I made my decision to seek publication in ignorance. I had no idea how hard reaching my goal would be because I had no idea how many other writers would be in competition with me. Now I know—there are at least a gazillion. And half of them are better writers than I am.
My goal this year was to see a story I’d written published, so I‘ve been using Duotrope to search for magazines I think might accept my work. No easy task that. I can eliminate those who only publish sci-fi, fantasy, mystery, thriller, erotica, western, etc. It’s just as easy to weed out some others by their rejection rates. If their acceptance rate is in the single digits—or less—I don’t even bother. Many of those magazines publish well-established authors; what chance do I have against the Joyce Carol Oates of the world?
Duotrope shows a description for each magazine, usually taken from their own website, and often I read this description and think the magazine sounds perfect for my work. Then, I go to the site and read samples of what they publish and my hopes are dashed. It’s either completely different in style or tone from what I write, or “too literary,” or “too amateur.” So those are more mags I can ignore.
So now, I’ve established what magazines I need not apply to, but how do I choose among the rest? One big question is whether I want to receive payment for my story or poem. Of course, searching for magazines that pay even a token amount turns up many I’ve already crossed off. And if my search term is “semi-pro and up” I’m going to see a lot of those names I’ve put on my too-elite-for-me list.
Do I need to receive payment to feel good about having a story or poem published? What if a magazine’s acceptance rate is over fifty percent? Some show over ninety percent! How would I feel about being published in one of those magazines?
I think to answer those questions, I have to ask another. Why do I write? It’s clearly no longer for my own entertainment or I wouldn’t be querying agents with a novel. I want my work to be read. But do I only want to be read? By how many people? If I don’t care about payment, and I don’t care how many people—or who—reads it, why not just publish on my blog? What is my writing worth to me? Questions, questions, questions.
Do you have an opinion to share?
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Sobering isn’t it? I sent off my first story to Asimov’s (aim high, why don’t you?) and since then, I’ve moved from lofty ambitions about making a sale to a prestigious mag to tearful Oscar acceptance speeches over halfway-friendly rejections! That said, I’ve rarely been paid for anything I’ve written because that’s not how it works for academic publications. Books yes, journal articles never. In fact I’m so unused to getting paid for writing that once, when I received a cheque for an article I’d sent unsolicited to an animal magazine (it was about kitten resuscitation, would you believe), I sent it back, thinking it was a mistake!
Now though, like you, I want some sort of recognition for my fictional work and, while I am still at the ‘Squeeeee!’ stage for rejections that even touch on matey, I’ll be beside myself when I finally get something out there because somebody else thought it might enhance their own publication and chose to associate themselves with it. That’s a start and I’ll buy that. Maybe I will get paid eventually but for now, recognition is enough, especially when I see the competition. As you say, it’s formidable and daunting BUT there must have been a time when Joyce Carol Oates thought she was up against it too. Plug away, I say and nil illegitimi carborundum, eh!
You never know who might see something you wrote and that is the ticket that you are waiting. You are right about the 90% stuff. That reminds me of the word always. Hang in There!
That the thing, Duke, I want to have things out there in hopes some influential person will read it, but I doubt such a person is read an online mag that started up last month and accepts 99% of submissions. So I have to find that perfect combination of “prestige” and welcoming to new and not absolutely brilliant writers.
Did you really send that check back, Suzanne? Did they return it to you?
Yes, I want … need … some recognition that my writing doesn’t suck. And yes, we all have to start somewhere, but I suspect JCO wrote better stuff in high school than I write now.
Nil illegitimi carborundum, indeed!
I did and they did, bless ‘em! Incidentally, if I’d thought someone else could do it better (and I’ve no doubt someone else could), I would never have sent that article so if there was someone out there thinking they could have done a better job, they missed out by not giving themselves the chance.
And what’s this ‘perfect’ thing about? Wait for that and you might wait forever – isn’t that the risk? I don’t say go with anything at all but would it be worth relaxing the parameters a little just to get your toe in the water?
Oh, I’ve put more than my toes in the water, Suzanne. In the beginning, I submitted to Glimmer Train … twice! Nearly drowned.
because if you publish only on your blog you will have a limited readership – no matter how well your blog is doing. (at least my humble opinion). but then again, as you say if this doesn’t matter….
as for publications, personally I think the more the merrier. Getting your name out there and publication credits are great I think. It adds to the resume, for when querying higher lit journals. (that being said, I never send out. I just don’t have the time for submitting shorts.) Either way – good luck!
True, Jennifer, but how do you know which mags have a reasonable readership? Then again, it’s for sure I can’t use blog publishing as a credit in a bio or in a query to an agent.
I’m surprised to hear you don’t submit to mags. I thought I’d seen pub credits on your blog.
yes, but not in the last months or so…….i’m hoping to send something out again soon. I really wanted to focus on the novel, but now it’s been a little while since a publication, so it’s time again.
I think it’s easier in Canada given we have 1/1000000 of the lit journals you guys have. lol. Easier I mean in the research kind of way. how do you manage to narrow down your places to sub??
I have thought about submitting to the US, but am daunted by the long lists of publications.
It’s a daunting task to narrow down your options, Jennifer. Like I said, some are easily eliminated, but still you’re left with dozens (at least) choices. I guess maybe after a while you develop some sense for where your work would fit best. At least I hope so.
Hi Linda,
I know the frustration. I’ve been sending submissions, both poetry and fiction, since about 1996. I have a log of every submission that dates back to then. Early on, I only sent a few submissions out a year. I got some good responses, but it wasn’t until about 2001 that I actually got my first publication. The funny part about it is that I was never notified by the mag that my poems were going in. I’d already had a subscription, so I just assumed the contributor’s copy was part of my subscription. I thumbed through the magazine. I did think at the time, “What if?” and turned directly to the poetry page just see if perhaps my poems might have made and I was never informed. Well, that’s exactly what I found. I’ve tried big and medium markets and online. It’s a crap shoot, I think. I won a first place award in a small poetry contest, judged by a well-established poet. There was no publication involved, just cash and a little token spiral bound book for all the winners, so I figured the poem was fair game for other publications. I sent the award-winning poem to an online publisher and it got torn to shreds. Go figure.
I say, don’t get discouraged. It’s hard. I know. It’s just part of the game. It’s what we as writers have to do. It’s the “not so glamorous” part about being a writer. The pay sucks, for the most part, unless you are Joyce Carol Oates or someone like her. I figure at some point she wasn’t Joyce Carol Oates, the famous writer, so I keep going. She was like me. One of my fellow writing group members said this about writing. There are hundreds of thousands of people who say they want to write a book. There are tens of thousands who do it. Less than that send them out. I guess the whole point is the perseverance is all we have. I say don’t limit yourself. I say send to a range of levels of mags. You never know who just might find what you write worth publishing.
P.S.
My first publication was Hip Mama Magazine, not paying, but a nationally recognized underground magazine. I was a single mom, living in a ghetto of an apartment complex at the time, so having that one nugget of encouragement was inspiring, but I’d been submitted stuff for five years by then.
Thank you for the pep talk, Cristina.
I’m not giving up, I’m just waiting for a big chunk of the rest to do that so my odds are better.
I guess you never know what mood the editor will be in on the day s/he reads your submission, huh? So a rejection could mean nothing about the quality of your writing.
As far as paid submissions go, I find that on Duotrope that most of the paying magazines are sci/fi and horror. I wonder why that is.
The mainstreamers who pay generally pay so little it makes me wonder why they bother.
I’ve been a Duotrope addict for about 6 months now, but just prior to that I submitted to Glimmer Train and The Sun. Had I known then what I know now (an approx zero percent acceptance rate
) I wouldn’t have bothered. What did I have to lose by trying? With The Sun’s mail only submissions, just a few dollars and a little inconvenience. Glimmertrain was a $15.00 reading fee.
I’ve learned A) not to pay a reading fee when about 98% of the magazines don’t (and with their acceptance rate, might as well burn it) and B) Unless there is a very compelling reason to do so, submit only to those who accept electronic submissions (again, about 98% do)
I’ve wondered that too, Tricia. Some of them say they pay like $3 but then suggest you donate that back to them!
Haven’t we all tried Glimmer Train? Of course, some of us (Christi) actually get an honorable mention.
I don’t submit to mags that charge a fee anymore. A contest maybe. And, right now, I’m mainly looking at electronic mags … though it would be heaven to hold a print copy of one of my stories in my hands.
As I said earlier, I sent my first off to Asimov’s and that’s a paper-only submission requirement with an SAE enclosure which, if you’re not in the US, is a monumental pain in the rump. I’ve made the shift in criteria so I don’t mind not being paid (for now anyway!) but I won’t pay to submit, I’m happy with online mags, and I want electronic submissions because hard copy is such a faff. That’s it.
My perspective is that I’m in a very large pond with a lot of much bigger fish so editors can pick and choose. Many of them are also working for free and trying to get recognition for their publication. Maybe, if they think my work is good enough to publish and readers like it too, we’ll all help each other towards our own goals.
I like your perspective in that last paragraph, Suzanne.
I agree with jenniferneri — the more publications, the better. As far as short stories and poems go, payment seems almost irrelevant — unless you’re John Updike or JCO and can demand big bucks, why bicker over 5 or 10 or 50 bucks? Isn’t it better to just get your name out there and see yourself in print?
I also agree that it’s difficult to determine which publications might be a good match for a particular piece — that’s where I’m struggling right now, and finding it to be pretty time consuming. Something like Duotrope can be a big help.++++++++++++++++++++
ha ha. The cat obviously agrees with me — that’s why she put all those ‘plus’ signs in the line above.
And if a mag has a 90% acceptance rate and it’s a perfect match for a piece of your writing, go for it. I think the good match is what’s important.
That’s just my 2 cents, of course. The cat has gotten bored with this post and has no further opinions.
You know, I don’t really care about money at this point, Natasha, and almost none of the mags I think I’d have a chance at pay anyway. And I agree the more submissions the better. I made the mistake of submitting a story to a mag that does NOT take simultaneous submissions and their turnaround rate is about 4 months! So that story is tied up for a while. I’ll read the submission policy more carefully next time.
Boy, Linda, you raise good questions.
For me, I would love to see more of my work published, with or without pay. I think getting your work out there is just as important and – for me – just as boosting to a writer’s confidence. I try to limit the number of places I submit to that ask for reading fees, but sometimes I just can’t resist. I like the pain of rejection, I guess
I don’t study a magazine’s statistics too long. As a writer, I fight my inner editor too often, and sometimes she tries to throw those kind of impossible odds my way too. She should know by now that I’m no good with numbers. ANYway…on Duotrope, they list the number of subscriptions for each magazine or journal, so sometimes I search there for places that might not pay but have a decent subscription base.
I say keep submitting, one way or another. Like you, I want my work to be read
Agreed, Christi, I need the encouragement far more than I need a few dollars.
And I don’t base my submission decision just on the acceptance rate. There’s one mag I’d like to submit a poem too because I feel it would be a good match, even though their rejection rate is something like 90%.
I hadn’t noticed you could see subscription numbers on Duotrope. Thanks for that info.
Woops – I was wrong about Duotrope posting subscription numbers, Linda. I checked it out after I posted my comment. I think I was remembering The Writer. In each issue, they highlight one lit journal (under Literary Spotlight), complete with circulation numbers. Too bad Duotrope doesn’t do the same.
Yes, that would be nice. Of course, could they even do that for online mags? Don’t most e-mags let you read without any kind of subscription?
All that work to toss away? Not so! If I can’t find a publisher for my novel, I may publish it on my blog one chapter a day! I would go to the trouble to promote it ahead of time and then birth it onto the web. No, it’s not all about money, is it?
Would you consider self-pub, Carol?
I would considered it if I had money to invest with an equity publisher. I wouldn’t use my funds foolishly. I would do a lot of homework first. Would you consider self-publishing? There was a time when I wouldn’t even think of it. However, I have learned that royalties are a small percentage of the proceeds on a book and are delayed. With self-publishing you stand to gain more if your book is successful. On the other hand, that cash coming in would have to cover your investment, so it would not be all black ink like an equity publisher would like to paint it. And if unsuccessful, it could be all red ink. With me, Ms. empty pockets, it’s back to the blog. Ha!
I’m Ms. Empty Pockets too, Carol. I’ve been following Michelle Davidson Argyle’s venture into self-publishing her novella Cinders. It’s available for the e-readers as well as print-on-demand. In one of her blog posts she broke down her expenses. She did all her own formatting, which is different for various e-readers. She also created her own cover, which was her biggest expense, even though she’s a professional photographer, because she had a custom dress made for her cover model. Her cover is gorgeous and completely professional. I could design mine, I think, using a stock photo, because I think my novel would require a simpler cover.
But would I consider self-publication of a novel? I’m not sure. I think it works very well for non-fiction because you’re more likely to have a ready-made platform. But not so well for fiction … unless you’ve already developed a sizable following from earlier traditional publication, or have influential friends, or maybe just a thousand everyday friends who will commit to publicizing for you. I’m 0 for 3 there, so I don’t think you’ll see me self-publishing anytime soon.
Another option is a smaller, indie publisher. Some of those you can still query directly.
I tend to take a number of things into consideration with my submissions: depends on the piece – my first flash fiction piece, I wasn’t sure how I’d done so I sent it somewhere that had a reasonably quick turn around and that offered feedback, that was very helpful. Another story was a ‘reprint’ because it had been on a blog for awhile, automatically you can rule out bigger markets, and most of the paying ones at that!
Otherwise, I start with places I would love to have my work, and work down from there. Being paid is excellent, but being published is pretty awesome too – as long as the site looks professional and the stories on it are ones I can enjoy, I’m happy to submit.
I automatically avoid places with extremely long response times, or low response rates (who has time to sit around for a year waiting to see if a piece got accepted? I’m just not that patient). It can take a lot of work figuring out where to submit to, but the more you do it, the better you get at it – as for all things, it takes practice
Good luck!
I LOVE Duotrope too, can spend so much time on that site.
Good tips, Cassie. Thanks. And glad to hear you do develop a sense for what to submit where. Now, I just need to get more things in shape to submit.
Linda,
I’ve found duotrope to be a valuable resource. I keep track of all my submissions through them.
My writing seems to come in spurts. Some months I can put out a couple of short stories and flash fiction pieces but find myself “stuck” on the novel. Other months, the novel is all I can think about.
I must admit to doing a happy dance the first time a short story of mine was published. Somehow I felt more like a “real” writer. The money didn’t matter to me either. That’s not to say it wouldn’t be nice…
Happy dance? Heck, I might be so excited I’ll clean my house!
Yep. I’m sort of stalling on a novel right now, so I’m working on short stories and poems.
Recognition is very important, to feel that someone else out there “gets” your story so I know what you mean. I haven’t tried any magazines yet, I haven’t tried submitting to anyone actually, I am more interested in polishing my novel and whilst I’d love to have something published in a magazine, it really is not a priority to me at all.
Well, I am doing it because I’d like to have some publishing credits to list in my bio. Right now, that would make my query letter look a bit more impressive.
I’ve read more than once that it is not tremendously important if you do NOT have a publishing record before you submit. What really matters to the agent is how good the story you are submitting is and how you present that on the query letter. I’ve heard this from more than one professional writer/agent in both of the publishing conferences I have attended. Good luck with it though, let us know how you get on.
I’ve read that too, Alannah, but then I’ve also read a good many agents’ submission guidelines requesting a bio with publishing credits.
Ohhh, you’re at THAT stage of the writing career. Nothing to offer here other than to say, follow your inclination, expect to stumble, but know you can pick yourself up again and keep going.
Thanks, Merrilee. This sort of left-brain activity is exhausting for me.
Lively discussion.
Oh, aren’t you the sly one, Trista.